Template:Did you know nominations/Auguste Le Guennant

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 16:41, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

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Auguste Le Guennant

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• ... that Auguste Le Guennant, director of the Gregorian Institute of Paris, passed his knowledge about Gregorian chant in study centres abroad, and to composer Maurice Duruflé who dedicated a work to him? Source: several

• Reviewed: Canan Bayram

Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 15:26, 2 October 2017 (UTC).

• 16px Date (just!) and length fine. AGF on foreign language and offline sources. QPQ done, no close paraphrasing. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:05, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

• 16px This article needs citations for the first two paragraphs of the Biography section before it can proceed. And while we are about it, the hook is a bit unfocussed. How about something like

• ALT1 ... that Auguste Le Guennant, a specialist in Gregorian chant, had a work by composer Maurice Duruflé dedicated to him? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:49, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

• I don't speak French, so can't double a citation. I believe that a hook should mention that he was not just any expert but the director of the institution on the topic, which I hope will get an article in English also. LouisAlain? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

OK, it should be available by tomorrow; LouisAlain (talk) 11:43, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, for whatever, an article or missing citations or both --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:46, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Suggesting an ALT2 that adds back the directorship per Gerda Arendt and also changes the wording slightly, since it's a set of four works that were dedicated, not a single work or composition (it could be "works" rather than "motets" if you think the latter is too specialized):

• ALT2: ... that Auguste Le Guennant, a specialist in Gregorian chant and director of the Gregorian Institute of Paris, had a set of chant-based motets by composer Maurice Duruflé dedicated to him?

LouisAlain, I believe we are still waiting on the sourcing for the first two paragraphs of the Biography section. Gerda Arendt, what was Le Guennant's exact position at the Institute? He's called "principal" in the article, but "director" in the hooks. I think one should be chosen—the best translation of the position—and used throughout. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:03, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

"Principal" may be used in French but it sounds very 19th/early 20th-century or used in religious institutions. All universities have a president, not a principal, and the same goes with École polytechnique, École des Arts et Métiers, École nationale d'administration, Schola Cantorum de Paris and their like which have a director at their head, not a principal. If you take a look at Gregorian Institute of Paris, you'll see the word "director" is used and not "principal". It belongs to native Anglophones to decide Template:Wink; LouisAlain (talk) 19:04, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I think that we could link to the Gregorian Institute of Paris and the Quatre Motets sur des thèmes grégoriens, the latter adding French flavour and avoiding "chant-based". I am sory not to know what would be the best English term for his position. LouisAlain?

Sorry Gerda but I don't always understand what you're expecting from me. LouisAlain (talk) 19:04, 25 October 2017 (UTC) (der Mann ohne Eigenschaften)

You answered well, though, director better than principal. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

What we still miss is a ref for the first two paragraphs. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:14, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that Auguste Le Guennant, a specialist in Gregorian chant and director of the Gregorian Institute of Paris, had Quatre Motets sur des thèmes grégoriens dedicated to him? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:15, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

• Slight modification (italics for the work title), and adding back Duruflé since it will attract more eyes:

• ALT3a: ... that Auguste Le Guennant, a specialist in Gregorian chant and director of the Gregorian Institute of Paris, had Duruflé's Quatre Motets sur des thèmes grégoriens dedicated to him? —BlueMoonset (talk) 22:29, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Found a PDF of the bio source that was already cited, - now inline. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:23, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

• 16px Restoring The C of E's original tick, as all problems have been sorted, and going for ALT3a. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
• 16px Hi, I came by to promote this, but feel there are way too many facts crammed into ALT3a. Since Le Guennant's advice on the chant was what earned him the dedication, could we just write:
• ALT3b: ... that Auguste Le Guennant, a specialist in Gregorian chant, had Duruflé's Quatre Motets sur des thèmes grégoriens dedicated to him? Yoninah (talk) 21:08, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

• No, see above. There are hundreds of specialists, but only one director of a leading school, perhaps the leading academy. Shorten the composition somehow, as the original had it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

• Well, then, how about ALT3c, which drops the specialist phrase but retains the directorship (I think it's important to retain the "grégoriens" from the title of the works):

• ALT3c: ... that Auguste Le Guennant, the director of the Gregorian Institute of Paris, had Duruflé's Quatre Motets sur des thèmes grégoriens dedicated to him? —BlueMoonset (talk) 04:29, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

• 16px Fine with me; I just wanted to shorten the hook. Restoring tick for ALT3c, per Cwmhiraeth's review. Yoninah (talk) 16:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)