Template:Did you know nominations/Toilet plume

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Revision as of 20:14, 15 May 2017 by imported>John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (tweak)
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Toilet plume

  • ... that there is evidence that, once contaminated by norovirus, toilets may continue to produce contaminated toilet plumes over multiple successive flushes?
Source: "Environmental contamination has been shown to be a major source of [norovirus] infection on ships.... This may be due in part to the ability of toilets to continue generating contaminated toilet plume during multiple flushes after original contamination." [1]

5x expanded by John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk). Self-nominated at 05:16, 20 April 2017 (UTC).

  • Symbol voting keep.svg Length and date fine. A wee bit of good faith will go a long way on the offline source. QPQ done, no close paraphrasing upon inspection, no picture used (thank goodness!). Good to go, pull the chain! (sorry for the crap jokes). The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 10:59, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment We have a source that says "although as of 2013 their transmission by toilet plume had not been directly studied". So well foilet plumes may transmit norovirus one can equally say "they may" not. This is just a hypothesis without clear evidence yet to support it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Template:Ping The hook lays no claims that norovirus can be spread via toilet plumes, however with Doc James comment unresolved, this hook is unlikely to get promoted. Would you consider proposing a different hook? Most people will never have heard of toilet plumes, so there is plenty of scope for hooks without mentioning pathogens which may or may not be present. I had a chuckle over the sentence "Disease transmission through droplet nuclei ... is not a concern for many pathogens", wondering what topics most pathogens discuss these days! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:15, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Template:Re Hi mate, guess you pinged me on this by mistake. This was reviewed by Template:U and I have pinged him for his attention. jojo@nthony (talk) 08:21, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) edits under two names, the other being Template:Ping, and I got confused. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:39, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay on this. I'd actually specifically pinged Doc James for his feedback here. Template:Ping The following hook should be more balanced; does it meet your approval? John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 01:02, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
ALT1: ... that while there is indirect evidence that pathogens could be spread by a toilet plume, no direct experimental studies have demonstrated actual disease transmission from toilet aerosols?
How about "... that while there is indirect evidence that disease could be spread by a toilet plume, this remains unconfirmed?" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:09, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
Symbol confirmed.svg Sorry, been without internet for a few days. I approve Doc James' hook as it is sourced inline and fairly hooky. rest of the review stands. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:30, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Or "... that while there is indirect evidence of disease being spread by a toilet plume, this remains unconfirmed?" Not sure if that flows better. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:38, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Or ALT4: "... that there is indirect, but unconfirmed, evidence of certain diseases being spread by toilet plume?" The research makes it clear that not all diseases are prone to be spread this way. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 03:16, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Lots good to me Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:59, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

I question the sourcing on this article, one citation has an abstract that directly contradicts what this article says it contains, for example. Please read comments on article talk page. Also, will someone please tell me what primary brain tumors in children have to do with norovirus contaminated toilet plumes on ships! --2601:648:8503:4467:BD8D:A6B0:350B:3F11 (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

  • "Epidemiological studies of norovirus in passenger airplanes[3] and ships,[4]"
  • 4. Allen, E. D.; Byrd, S. E.; Darling, C. F.; Tomita, T.; Wilczynski, M. A. (1 June 1993). "The clinical and radiological evaluation of primary brain tumors in children, Part I: Clinical evaluation.". Journal of the National Medical Association. 85 (6): 445–451. ISSN 0027-9684. PMC 2571872 Freely accessible. PMID 8366534.

On the first point, Ref. 1 says (emphasis added): "Environmental contamination has been shown to be a major source of AGE infection on ships... This may be due in part to the ability of toilets to continue generating contaminated toilet plume during multiple flushes after original contamination as well as the apparent resistance of norovirus and perhaps other viruses to cleaning and disinfection." That sentence directly cites Ref. 2, whose abstract says "In order consistently to achieve good hygiene, it was necessary to wipe the surface clean using a cloth soaked in detergent before applying the combined hypochlorite/detergent. When detergent cleaning alone or combined hypochlorite/detergent treatment failed to eliminate NV contamination from the surface and the cleaning cloth was then used to wipe another surface, the virus was transferred to that surface and to the hands of the person handling the cloth." So it's difficult to clean up norovirus contamination.

On the second point... good catch, somehow the wrong paper got cited. I've replaced it with the correct one. John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 19:35, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Also: if the "direct, but unconfirmed" bit sounds overly vague, we can use something closer to ALT1, which had more explanation. For example: