Template:Did you know nominations/Tootie Perry

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Revision as of 15:37, 9 November 2014 by imported>BlueMoonset (hopefully fixing pings)
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Tootie Perry, Edgar C. Jones, Goldy Golstein, Red Bethea, Larry Dupree, Charles Casey (American football), Vel Heckman

Photograph of Carl "Tootie" Perry, the Gators' "jolly captain" and "Dixie's greatest guard"

Created by Cbl62 (talk), Dirtlawyer1 (talk). Nominated by Cbl62 (talk) at 19:25, 9 September 2014 (UTC).

  • Note: The nom is a few hours late on Edgar C. Jones but timely on the others. I ask for a few hours leeway on Jones. I am working on the QPQs. Cbl62 (talk) 19:50, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Seven QPQs have now been done for this 7-part nom. Cbl62 (talk) 21:27, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
I believe this is a reliable source. I will ping Template:Ping for his input on this. Cbl62 (talk) 21:17, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
The "F Club" is the University of Florida Varsity Lettermen's Club, and it is the organization that maintains the University of Florida Athletic Hall of Fame. As simple as the F Club list is, it is the official list of "Gator Greats." I have added secondary sources for the induction of Tootie Perry (1992 news article) and Larry Dupree (2014 obituary), but most of these guys were inducted into the HOF in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, when it was much more low-key affair and news coverage of the Gators was sparse. Cbl already added a obituary footnote for Red Bethea's induction in 1986, and a news brief for Goldy Goldstein's induction in 1989. I am scouring the internet, but I may not find secondary sources for Jones, Heckman and Casey. The old newspaper searches are hit and miss, and I've often found HOF announcements by accident. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:34, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
  • The articles are neutral, adequately sources, pass a copyvio check and are within general MOS guidelines.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
  • QPQs are done.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
  • The hook is adequately interesting. It would be tough to work all the articles into a single hook in any other way. Several of the articles may have more intriguing hook possibilities, but there isn't much else that can be done for a 7-way multi.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
  • The hook is 316 characters. It might be worth paring down some of its flowery and wordy content.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:28, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Not sure what language it is that you consider to be "flowery and wordy." The rules specify that multis are not limited to 200 characters; 300 characters for a 7-part multi strike me as pretty efficient. Cbl62 (talk) 21:17, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Forgot to query Template:U regarding leniency for the one article that was nearly a day late.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:07, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Unlike you fellas, I'm not a DYK regular, so pardon me if this is a dumb question. In a DYK blurb about seven members of the University of Florida Athletic Hall of Fame, is there a reason why we are not linking to the Wikipedia article that lists all of its members? Can we only link to newly created articles? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:26, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
We could do that, but the goal is to draw page views to the newly created articles. The more articles that are linked in the hook, the greater the risk that page hits get diluted to the non-featured article. If you could respond to Tony's question above, that would be appreciated. Cbl62 (talk) 22:10, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
  • TonyTheTiger, the leniency is up to you, but I'd imagine a day late is permissible given the number of articles involved. However, I don't see a single review icon from you indicating the state of this review, which is really needed, especially as you have already begun to claim review credit. As for the length of the hook, Cbl62, it is long by DYK standards: WP:DYKSG#C3 says, Template:Tq As this is 223 characters after all those subtractions (and the 11 for "(pictured)"), it is too long. You might want to omit the positions of the final four players (you don't mention one for the first three), which should save the characters you need, or find a different approach. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:24, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Template:Ping Cbl62 is an attorney in real life, and he has been consumed with RL concerns for the last week or so. I was one of the contributors to these articles and I am familiar with the subject material. If anything else needs to be done, please let me know and I will do my best to comply. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:34, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Dirtlawyer1. If you want, I can post an edited version of the hook with the cuts as I suggested as an ALT1. But at this point, it's up to TonyTheTiger to weigh in, since it's his review. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:39, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Template:PingTemplate:Ping Tony is one of the most active sports editors we have, and his editing history indicates he has been active in the last 24 hours. Please feel free to post your ALT1 version, and hopefully my ping will attract Tony's attention so we can wrap this up. Cheers, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:43, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
  • ALT1: ... that the American football players inducted into the University of Florida Athletic Hall of Fame as "Gator Greats" include "All-American Waterboy" Tootie Perry (pictured), athletic director Edgar C. Jones, attorney Goldy Goldstein, plus Red Bethea, Larry Dupree, Charles Casey and Vel Heckman? (I thought it was better with the "plus" to separate the ones with descriptions from the ones without, but that means it's 202 characters eliminating all but the first bold link, or 205 if we eliminate all but the longest link. I'll leave it to Tony whether the "plus" stays or goes; either way we're down to 200 or fewer if it goes.) BlueMoonset (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
  • The real problem here is that the one source is just a list of names and sports. There's nothing to explicitly connect these particular articles/people with that list; in particular, that lack for Jones, Heckman, and Casey is a problem, and something is needed to confirm that their articles are about those Gator Greats if the hook is to run at DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:29, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Template:Ping Well, you mean other than the fact that these named athletes played for the Florida Gators football team as indicated by the list, right? But, yes, I understand what you're saying about sourcing: it's thin. FYI, the F Club list, such as it is, is the official list of Gator Great members of the UFHOF. For members who have been inducted since the late 1970s, I have usually been able to find newspaper articles about the then-current class of new inductees. Before that, not a lot of ink was spilled when these oldtimers were inducted at a private UF event, and in some case, posthumously. All of that is background so you can understand the available sources. For Jones, Heckman and Casey, would you accept an internal article/release from the UF athletic department, explicitly confirming their membership in the UFHOF? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:48, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Dirtlawyer1, I don't see how an internal article/release would qualify as "published" under WP:SOURCES, but as I consulted Crisco 1492 before my previous reply, I'll do so again on this, since he's more experienced than I am in these matters. I understand the background; unfortunately, when adequate sources aren't available, it affects what can be claimed in an article or hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:05, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
  • My objection was not to the source being primary, but to the lack of sports and other information necessary to contextualize this. Individual articles might be worth using, if nothing else is available, but that list doesn't have enough info. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:06, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Symbol possible vote.svg It has been 20 days without a response from either Cbl62 or Dirtlawyer1, and that's frankly too long, especially as the latter has been pinged more than once and is actively editing on the site. Crisco 1492 has, as far as I can tell, given a go-ahead to use sources such as the one suggested on October 18, but no action has been taken to do so. I hope this is addressed in the next few days. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:34, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Template:Ping Template:Ping There are no articles, either third-party newspapers or in-house, that support UFHOF membership for Jones, Heckman and Casey which are not simple lists. So, the alternative is to either (a) accept the F Club's UFHOF membership list, or (b) excise Jones, Heckman and Casey from the DYK text. Your call. Please advise, and I will do whatever is necessary to wrap this up. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)